Ludwig Black Panther finish....rare yes. Desireable?

[Ludwig-dude]

Ok, I need a bunch of opinions on this one. Another member posted in another thread about Ludwig's Black Panther finish that yes they were rare, but that they were undesirable.

So what's your opinion? Yes or no?

[Ludwig-dude]

Here's a link to completed ebay listings.....judging by the prices I'd say yes.

http://completed.shop.ebay.com/Percussion-/10172/i.html?LH_IncludeSIF=1&LH_Complete=1&_nkw=ludwig%20panther&_fln=1&_sop=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m283&_rdc=1

BTW, you need to log in with your ebay ID to view it.......

[O-Lugs]

I don't like the look of the finish, myself. I do, however, LOVE black Cortex and black lacquer finished drums. I know BP is a rare finish, but it didn't seem like a practical one. It tore easily from what I understand and didn't wear well as far as scratches and scuffs, either. But, just like anything else, there's people who love it and people who hate it. The same thing happens with Mod Orange and Citrus Mod and Psych Red.

[O-Lugs]

By the way...If you add up the total for all those drums listed in that link, the entire shellpack sold for $863.50 -not including the S/H. I don't think that's an indication they are necessarily desirable over any other finish.

[Ludwig-dude]

I hear what you are saying and can appreciate that others are not a fan of the finish. Like you stated the same can be said about the mod finishes and psychadelic red finish, as well as the Ludwig Standard Strata finishes.......I am not a fan of any of those now rare and desireable ugly finishes. Black Panther on the other hand I always thought was a cool finish. Yes they are a bit harder to keep nice, but I take care of my equipment, unlike some drummers I know. They are no worse to take care of than any other instrument as long as they are handled with care, and I always do.

I always do one of these: DOH when I see a guy load in his drums to a club with NO CASES OR GIGBAGS! Mind Blowi Even better, when the cymbals come in ON THE STANDS STILL! Mind Blowi DOH

[Ludwig-dude]

By the way...If you add up the total for all those drums listed in that link, the entire shellpack sold for $863.50 -not including the S/H. I don't think that's an indication they are necessarily desirable over any other finish.

If they were truly undesirable they would have sold for a lot less.......

[Stallwart]

I voted yes. They match the top of my Samsonite folding card table.

From a collector standpoint and as a player's kit I think this kit is desirable. Like Slingerland denim covering, among others, one has to realize what was going on in the 70's to get a feel for the reason companies offered these finishes.

Black Panther might end up as the "Top Hat & Cane" equivalent for it's era.

[drumbum3131]

All colors even red sparkle, wmp, black oyster, are seen by some as non-desirable....it's just what the person likes???Isn't that kind of an obvious thing. If this is about me saying it is an undesirable finish....I''ll re-phrase it and say that the majority of people don't really like it.



And just for the record....I really love the finish when it is on keystone badged drums.

[kevins]

All colors even red sparkle, wmp, black oyster, are seen by some as non-desirable....it's just what the person likes???Isn't that kind of an obvious thing. If this is about me saying it is an undesirable finish....I''ll re-phrase it and say that the majority of people don't really like it.



And just for the record....I really love the finish when it is on keystone badged drums.
hmmmmm......

[O-Lugs]

I didn't mean to suggest they were completely UNdesirable. But the price indicates what appears to be about the average for any vintage Ludwig kit in decent shape these days.

[ludwigvondrummer]

Hello. I found this place today when I googled ludwig black panther. I voted yes as desirable because....to me they are! I own 3 kits, date stamped 71-73, clear interiors with minimal finish damage. They are not mint, but above average for a vintage players kit. I outfitted them with after market rims because the originals were in bad shape. To me, they are unique and made me an affordable, EXCELLENT sounding gigging kit (many compliments from sound guys). Currently the gig line up is 10/12/14/16/22 and 70s 5x14 supra or 90s acrolite. I rotate the kicks as volume requirements change.

Bass: 24, 22, 20
Fl. tom: 18, 16, 14
Tom: 14, 13, 12, 10, 6 (6&10 have gray interiors)
snare: 6x15 (needs to be refurbished)
shell w/o hardware: 9x13, 10x14

Recently, I committed a sin with the 10" tom. As you know, it is a concert tom...or was. As a single headed tom, it was useless to me as an instrument. So I converted it to a double headed tom to match the rest of the drums aesthetically and tonally. It is no longer a dusty shelf dweller. I figured, it is mine as long as I'm alive...let the next guy complain.

Now, I'm keeping my eyes open for an 8" concert tom and possibly a second 22" kick.

lvd

[mcjnic]

That's not a sin. I would have done the same thing. Now, when concert toms become a heavily desired comodity for collectors ... Never mind. It'll never happen.

[vintage drum bug]

I love it, classy, dark, modern and old at the same time...looks like those unfinished paint cars from "Mad Max"...I just love it!!!!!!!Bowing
I have two sets a B/O and a KS.
Vinny

[ringo]

Here in Sweden they are very common. I don´t know why. Maybe the distributor liked the finish?

When it comes to Slingerland, Chrome, Blakrome and Copper is very common over here, but kind of rare in the US? Am I right?

[O-Lugs]

Actually, concert toms never really went away. Have you heard/seen Terry Bozzio? A big portion of his drums are single-headed. As far as vintage concert toms in drum sets go, I would have to say that they very well might come back into style. Why? Because they represent a specific era in drumming and drum set evolution. That's a fairly good part of the collecting aspect.

For example: I suspect there will be a fad of collecting "giant" drum sets like the Ludwig Octa-Plus and whatever comparative giant sets the other manufacturers were marketing at the time (and they were marketing BIG drum sets at the time! -Every company had a giant). They will be exceedingly rare to find in any kind of complete condition and in well-kept condition (because most owners "rocked" them!)

I could be wrong.

However, I think the same thing holds true for the "weird" finishes like BP as well as all the "puke" colors like Psych Red, Citrus Mod, Mod Orange, Oyster Black, Oyster Blue, Oyster Pink. The weirdness, alone, will make them collectible, because that weirdness factor gives them the exclusivity that collectors like.

I like blue sparkle, myself. But, as a collector, if I saw two identical Ludwig snare drums and one was blue sparkle and the other was BP -and if they were the same price, then I would have to opt for the BP drum -even though I don't care for it, because, I know I can always sell that BP drum to someone who really can't live without it....*ka-ching!* Cool Dude

[Rockdrum]

Hello. I found this place today when I googled ludwig black panther. I voted yes as desirable because....to me they are! I own 3 kits, date stamped 71-73, clear interiors with minimal finish damage. They are not mint, but above average for a vintage players kit. I outfitted them with after market rims because the originals were in bad shape. To me, they are unique and made me an affordable, EXCELLENT sounding gigging kit (many compliments from sound guys). Currently the gig line up is 10/12/14/16/22 and 70s 5x14 supra or 90s acrolite. I rotate the kicks as volume requirements change.

Bass: 24, 22, 20
Fl. tom: 18, 16, 14
Tom: 14, 13, 12, 10, 6 (6&10 have gray interiors)
snare: 6x15 (needs to be refurbished)
shell w/o hardware: 9x13, 10x14

Recently, I committed a sin with the 10" tom. As you know, it is a concert tom...or was. As a single headed tom, it was useless to me as an instrument. So I converted it to a double headed tom to match the rest of the drums aesthetically and tonally. It is no longer a dusty shelf dweller. I figured, it is mine as long as I'm alive...let the next guy complain.

Now, I'm keeping my eyes open for an 8" concert tom and possibly a second 22" kick.

lvd

Awesome. Just like you I also own 14 original Black Panther drums. May we see a picture of your converted 10" tom, and anything thing else you might like to share?

[Ludwig-dude]

Hello. I found this place today when I googled ludwig black panther. I voted yes as desirable because....to me they are! I own 3 kits, date stamped 71-73, clear interiors with minimal finish damage. They are not mint, but above average for a vintage players kit. I outfitted them with after market rims because the originals were in bad shape. To me, they are unique and made me an affordable, EXCELLENT sounding gigging kit (many compliments from sound guys). Currently the gig line up is 10/12/14/16/22 and 70s 5x14 supra or 90s acrolite. I rotate the kicks as volume requirements change.

Bass: 24, 22, 20
Fl. tom: 18, 16, 14
Tom: 14, 13, 12, 10, 6 (6&10 have gray interiors)
snare: 6x15 (needs to be refurbished)
shell w/o hardware: 9x13, 10x14

Recently, I committed a sin with the 10" tom. As you know, it is a concert tom...or was. As a single headed tom, it was useless to me as an instrument. So I converted it to a double headed tom to match the rest of the drums aesthetically and tonally. It is no longer a dusty shelf dweller. I figured, it is mine as long as I'm alive...let the next guy complain.

Now, I'm keeping my eyes open for an 8" concert tom and possibly a second 22" kick.

lvd

Ah hah! You're the one that ended up with the 15" black panther snare from ebay! Bowing

[csclassics]

I have a newer Ludwig kit...black. I've been gigging it for two years. always in cases, always take caution with them. But they show scratches and dust very easily. I have to clean them off every few days to keep them looking nice. Although I'm going to keep the kit when I get another one, I don't think I'll buy another black kit again. That's not to say that The Black Panther kits aren't nice kits. I really do like the strata and sparkle finished though.

The Band

[Jaye]

This is a good question....because, well y'know...not EVERY vintage finish is particularly attractive. Someone said Samsonite luggage.....that's about the speed. (I was thinking more like the roof of my old '74 Mustang II....)

I think it's a hideous drum finish....even in stellar condition......

[ludwigvondrummer]

I did get the 15" snare off ebay. It was maybe 2 or 3 years ago? There was another one on ebay 5 or 6 years ago that ended on a holiday and I missed out on it. I wish it were a jazz fest instead of the school fest. It is rare either way. I spent as much for it as I did on one of the 3 piece kits.

I'll work on getting some pics of the various drums this week.

lvd

[Rockdrum]

Do you remember if the other snare you saw 5-6 years ago was also a 6x15"
like the one you got, or was it some other size?

[poppy79424]

I voted yes because I love BP's. I recently ran across a 22-16-12-13 from a guy here, after I read ludwigdudes BP history, I decided to buy them I restored them quickly and they look fabulous to me. I love learning drum history, especially Ludwig History. Mine are 38 yrs old and the finish was in pretty dam good shape. There was some damage that no finish could have withstood. I repaired it all and they look fabulous! Im pretty sure I have one of only 8 kits in existence! lol just kiddin!!

[wadsmoe]

BOY I'M SORRY I MISSED THIS THREAD WHEN IT WAS LIVE, EXACTLY ! I SAID THE same thing ;they look like samsonite luggage! As far as finishes go, they are like the Dallas Cowboys, LOVE them or hate them! I happen to like the Cowboys and BOP, and citrus mod. Hate BP, the first time I saw them on eBay, I asked the guy if he made up the name! So there's my :2Cents:

[poppy79424]

Thats what I thought when a friend of mine bought a big drum lot off CL, and said he got some black pannthers. I asked about em here and got an immediate response. I read the Black Panther thread by LD and was intregued to say the least. I love em! My Vote!

QUOTE=wadsmoe;61148]BOY I'M SORRY I MISSED THIS THREAD WHEN IT WAS LIVE, EXACTLY ! I SAID THE same thing ;they look like samsonite luggage! As far as finishes go, they are like the Dallas Cowboys, LOVE them or hate them! I happen to like the Cowboys and BOP, and citrus mod. Hate BP, the first time I saw them on eBay, I asked the guy if he made up the name! So there's my :2Cents:[/QUOTE]

[stonestreet]

I like seeing black panthers for the same reason I like playing scratch tickets. You never know what's underneath.

Marc, new member.

[poppy79424]

When I 1st got my BP's lucky was chompin at the bit for me to see if there was a mod wrap underneath. There was a small gash in the ft. I could definatly tell there was nothing cool under the BP wrap, but didnt ever say one way or the other. I wanted to keep everyone in suspense. My 1st kit was a slingy bop kit I guess. It had a bass drum, snare, 1 tom and a floor tom. I ended up covering the shells with black vinyl. I was 13 or 14 yrs old back then, 40 yrs ago. I had some Black panther slingys! lol The ole step monster sold em in a garage sale. I have no idea what the sizes of those drum were. I loved black vinyl covered drums since i was a kid, but then I grew up in the upholstery business. We live what we learn...........

[vintage drum bug]

With the deepest sorrow I got to let you guys know that my 1971 Black Panther set and me have parted ways today at 10:30 am Pacific Time. Her new master is Pete59!!!
Ill miss you Babe!!!
That black skin and tanned shell will resonate in my heart forever!
snifcrying2-07crying2-07crying2-07

[poppy79424]

Why did you sell them?

[vintage drum bug]

Poppy: it was a partial trade plus some cash on top. I trade them because those are not "MY" sizes and besides I got the same set but on Keystone badge. (I guess Ill sell that some day too!!!)
I mean Drums are like girls...they come and go...untill one day you're hooked and get married...
Im interested on a set that teenagebrain has that Id love to "date"!!!!
Part of this money will go to that Babe!

[poppy79424]

I understand. If i had 2 BP kits id sell the newest one too. I have a few too many drum kits myselfbut hey, It keeps me off the streets! If i ran around like i used to i'd spend more money in the bars than I do on drums and have nothing to show for it except memories, and DWI's lolololo

[vintage drum bug]

Man, I Love those Sonor you have!!!
Vin

[poppy79424]

Thanks! The Sonors are very nice. They were in excellent shape before I restored them. My brother gave them to me. I guy owed him some money and ended up giving him the sonors, which had been on a shelf for 20 yrs. . It was a snare, tom and bass drum along with the original hi hat and cymbal stand. I found a floor tom on craigs list in canada and convinced the guy to sell it to me on ebay. It was pretty scratched up, but I stripped to the shell and had my body shop drummer buddy polish it with 3m plastic headlite polish. Later I found a sonor super Tyrko NOS ride cymbal for it and a vintage Sonor Kick pedal.I was very pleased how it turned out.