New project: 12" X 15" Club Date FT

[checker758]

Call me a masochist, but I like a challenge. So I'm going to try to bring this 12" X 15" WFL Club Date tom back from the brink of the kindling pile.

I found it on Criag's List. A little kid about 10 years old had it as part of his first drum kit, and he spray painted it lime green, lugs and all.

I was very curious about what was under the custom paint job. It didn't take long to figure out - the paint was chipping off all over the place. Underneath was a really cool laquer that seems to be the "Galaxy" finish shown in the 1962 Ludwig catalog. I don't generally like black drums, but this is pretty cool - a high gloss black lacquer with a slight sprinkling of what looks like super-tiny silver and pink sparkles in it. It appears to be the original finish - it's chipping in places too, and it looks like there's nothing under it except bare wood. There's nothing I can see under the lugs, in the paint chips, or in the holes that would indicate this drum was ever any colors other than the current mess, and "Galaxy" black.

But there are two weird things about it. One, "Galaxy" isn't listed as a finish in the WFL catalog on this site, and doesn't seem to show up in the Ludwig catalogs until a few years after WFL was done. And the real oddity: The badge was painted over (to the point where I couldn't even tell if it was a Ludwig or a WFL when I got it), so I rubbed a little Goof Off on it, and the green paint came right off, but underneath it was the "Galaxy" lacquer - it looks like this finish was applied right over the WFL badge. I'm curious if anyone has ever seen anything like this before.

Anyway, I'm not going to try to re-do this color (although if it was in better condition underneath the green, I might conisider it.) I plan on re-wrapping it in silver sparkle to go along with my Club Date set. Any input, hints, or suggestions for a first-time re-wrapper are welcome :)

Scott

[checker758]

Oops. As I was clicking "submit" I realized I was posting this in the wrong forum. :( Can it be moved to the "Vintage Drums" section?

Scott

[MIKEY777]

Hi Scott,,,That badge looks to be silver in color not brass--if it is silver badge if i recall right that would date the drum from 1941-44 w.f.l. did not used brass badges then because of WWII..As far as the finish i would say home made job,i don't think ludwig ever did a finish like that in paint...A rewrap is a easy thing to do..mikey

[checker758]

I wasn't even thinking until after I posted my original note that the "Galaxy" finish was a wrap and not a paint job. So the black paint obviously isn't original.

But if not, I'm still curious about what was originally on this drum? I guess it had to have been wrapped in something that came off cleanly, and then someone did a pretty professional job (except for the badge) painting it.

Scott

[checker758]

Hi Scott,,,That badge looks to be silver in color not brass--if it is silver badge if i recall right that would date the drum from 1941-44 w.f.l. did not used brass badges then because of WWII..As far as the finish i would say home made job,i don't think ludwig ever did a finish like that in paint...A rewrap is a easy thing to do..mikey

I think the silver color is just a trick of the light - there's a tiny spot on the lower left part of the badge where the paint is chipped off, and it looks like a brass color underneath.

One more thing: looking at some old WFL and Ludwig catalogs, it appears that by 1955 these drums were only offered in the standard duco paint jobs. So since there's no paint under the black, it must have originally been wrapped, and if it was wrapped, it would have to be from earlier than the mid-'50s, right? Without a serial number or date stamp, how can I date this drum?

Scott

[kevins]

It looks like in the Drum Guide that from the 30's through '59 that there are eight or so WFL badges that differ from each other as the years progress. When you get the paint removed from that badge perhaps a more specific date can be determined?

[Jaye]

If it was originally wrapped ...and the wrap was removed, then there should still be some remnant of the original wrap under the outer ply where it laps & seams.

[checker758]

If it was originally wrapped ...and the wrap was removed, then there should still be some remnant of the original wrap under the outer ply where it laps & seams.

Good point. I just checked, and no remnants, so apparently it was originally painted.

I just did a bit of an archaeological dig on the paint, and was a little surprised by what I found. I took an Exacto knife and started shaving off thin layers of paint. From the top layer down, here's what I've got:

Lime green
black sparkle
red
white or silver
black
flat gray-ish brown
wood

That's 6 layers of paint!

I tried this excavation process in the center section of the shell and also near the edges, thinking that if it was a typical duco finish, there might also be a layer of gold paint around the middle. But as far as I can tell, that's not the case - it appears to be the same 6 layers on the whole shell. And as far as I can tell from the catalogs on this site, none of those layers match a complete original catalog finish. So this is a bit of a mystery drum, to me anyway.

I'm in the middle of stripping the paint right now with 3M Safest Stripper, so I guess I'll know soon if there are any more surprises/clues.

Scott

[kevins]

What year is the drum?

[checker758]

What year is the drum?

As yet undetermined. When I get the lacquer off the badge (hopefully today), I should have a better idea. Best guess right now is early to mid '50s.

Scott

[510]

Good point. I just checked, and no remnants, so apparently it was originally painted.

I just did a bit of an archaeological dig on the paint, and was a little surprised by what I found. I took an Exacto knife and started shaving off thin layers of paint. From the top layer down, here's what I've got:

Lime green
black sparkle
red
white or silver
black
flat gray-ish brown
wood

That's 6 layers of paint!

I tried this excavation process in the center section of the shell and also near the edges, thinking that if it was a typical duco finish, there might also be a layer of gold paint around the middle. But as far as I can tell, that's not the case - it appears to be the same 6 layers on the whole shell. And as far as I can tell from the catalogs on this site, none of those layers match a complete original catalog finish. So this is a bit of a mystery drum, to me anyway.

I'm in the middle of stripping the paint right now with 3M Safest Stripper, so I guess I'll know soon if there are any more surprises/clues.

Scott

My complements on your effort with this drum I think the worse shape they start in the more rewarding feeling you get when you make it right. BRAVO!

I was wondering were the layers of each color multiple layers, as to achieve a new finished color (each a new color). Are you thinking the black (possibly the original with a gray undercoat) would probably need a thick white undercoat to go to red? Sometimes to get deeper and more interesting colors (on cars anyway) various layers of clear colors and sparkles (silver or gold) are used to get what may end up being a deep black sparkle (white primer then silver then clear red then clear black). But maybe it’s more likely to be (1. grey primer then black, then 2. white primer for the new red and possibly silver for red metallic, then 3. black sparkle all by itself, then 4. green?). Just my two cents.

I’m looking forward to seeing your restoration.

[checker758]

My complements on your effort with this drum I think the worse shape they start in the more rewarding feeling you get when you make it right. BRAVO!

I was wondering were the layers of each color multiple layers, as to achieve a new finished color (each a new color). Are you thinking the black (possibly the original with a gray undercoat) would probably need a thick white undercoat to go to red? Sometimes to get deeper and more interesting colors (on cars anyway) various layers of clear colors and sparkles (silver or gold) are used to get what may end up being a deep black sparkle (white primer then silver then clear red then clear black). But maybe it’s more likely to be (1. grey primer then black, then 2. white primer for the new red and possibly silver for red metallic, then 3. black sparkle all by itself, then 4. green?). Just my two cents.

I’m looking forward to seeing your restoration.

I was thinking something along those same lines, that at least one or two of the six layers were primers for other colors sprayed over them. The dull brown/gray directly over the wood seems like a primer rather than a finish color, and the red also looks kind of flat and nondescript.

I still haven't scraped the stripper off the shell (I just slathered on another coat, because the coat I left on overnight had dried out), but I think I'll get a better idea of the history once I do. I the meantime, if I had to hazard a guess right now, I'd say someone who owned this drum probably took it into an auto body paint shop to have it re-done, resulting in a couple of the extra layers.

Scott

[510]

Checker – Just noticing your badge. I don’t see one like it on the DrumGuide WFL page. Two points of interest to me are: 1. it reads Drum Co. like the 40s and early 50s but 2. the “U” in the word drum falls under the space and “F” of WFL like the 55 to 59 badge. I’ve evaluated the earlier badges but the spaces around the WFL are wide and such. So, I’m thinking when you get that badge cleaned David should have a photo for his records.

"Dear Mr. Holmes, I believe you may have unearthed a new species!" Ha Ha Ha!

[checker758]

What year is the drum?

I don't have a photo yet, but it appears to me to have this badge:

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/badges/ludwig/wfl_keystone_37-54_large.jpg

...which according to the info on this site would date it to 1955 - 1959. As soon as I get it cleaned up I'll post a photo to verify.

Scott

[510]

I don't have a photo yet, but it appears to me to have this badge:

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/badges/ludwig/wfl_keystone_37-54_large.jpg

...which according to the info on this site would date it to 1955 - 1959. As soon as I get it cleaned up I'll post a photo to verify.

Scott

Yup! My bad, I saw the "S" as a "C". Thank you!

"Doctor Watson, what are you telling me this new species crap for!" Ha ha ha!

[checker758]

I couldn't wait, so I wiped some of the stripper off and took the shot below. So it does appear to be a '55 - '59 drum, based on the badge.

BTW, I noticed something else that I hadn't seen until I looked at the photo - the red paint is also over the badge. It even looks like there might be a little white undernath the red, but I can't tell if that's paint or stripper.

Scott

[kevins]

BTW, I noticed something else that I hadn't seen until I looked at the photo - the red paint is also over the badge. It even looks like there might be a little white undernath the red, but I can't tell if that's paint or stripper.
Scott
WOW multiple cases of laziness.... whodathunk...................jeez.... !!!!

[checker758]

This drum is just full of surprises.

I'm going to have to do another round of stripper, but the initial scrape revealed the original finish, which had not been apparent in any of the early paint scrapings. It was originally blue and silver duco - see below.

It looks like the layer of paint that initially appeared black was actually dark blue. And the gray/brown beneath (which appears more reddish-clay colored in the photo) it is the original primer over the wood.

Scott

[510]

Checker758 - Is the stripper to mild? You've got me feeling bad that I mentioned 3M in another thread recently! Ouch! That is some ugly sh*t!

No wonder the pinball machine collecters use it to remove a layer or so at a time.DOH

On the other hand, it is great that you will be able to restore it to it’s original colors though, if you choose to.

[vintagemore2000]

With As Many Layers Of Paint That You Are Having To Remove You Need To Use A Gel Type Paint Remover, The 3m Is Not Strong Enough For This Many Layers Of Paint, But With A Gel Type Of Paint Remover It Needs To Be No Cooler Than 70 Degrees Outside, That Maybe What The Problems Is With The 3m Remover If It Is Below 70 Degrees They Will Not Work Very Well. Mark

[checker758]

We won't be seeing 70 degrees here in Chicago until next April, and I can't wait that long to use a gel stripper! :)

The 3M stripper is pretty mild, but I can use it indoors and that's a big plus right now, so I'll just have to do another coat. I've discovered that it works really well on latex enamel and whatever else was on this drum, but not as well on the relatively non-porous lacquer that was the second layer (from the top) on my drum. But I think another application should finish it off. And I'm willing to trade a little more elbow grease for a safer and more convenient stripper.

Even though I now know the original color scheme, I don't intend to replicate it. I'm going to wrap it in silver sparkle to match my Club Dates. I'm stripping it mainly to make sure I'm not gluing the wrap to an unstable surface (which was chipping badly already), and to try as much as possible to avoid increasing the diameter of the drum and creating problems with heads fitting.

Scott

[checker758]

Ouch! That is some ugly sh*t!



Yeah, it's so hideous now that there's a part of me that wants to just put the hardware back on it and play it as is, just to make a statement! :)

Scott

[MastroSnare]

I have a 12x15 60's Ludwig marching drum converted to a floor tom, and I really like that size - just right with my 16x16.

I had a 60's Ludwig 8x12 that was originally factory painted and after I covered it with drum pearl the heads fit very tight on the shell.

The impression I got was that Ludwig made shells slightly larger when they were intended to be painted and smaller when they were to be wrapped, although I'd like to hear some others comment on if that's true or not.

[510]

We won't be seeing 70 degrees here in Chicago until next April, and I can't wait that long to use a gel stripper! :)

The 3M stripper is pretty mild, but I can use it indoors and that's a big plus right now, so I'll just have to do another coat. I've discovered that it works really well on latex enamel and whatever else was on this drum, but not as well on the relatively non-porous lacquer that was the second layer (from the top) on my drum. But I think another application should finish it off. And I'm willing to trade a little more elbow grease for a safer and more convenient stripper.

Even though I now know the original color scheme, I don't intend to replicate it. I'm going to wrap it in silver sparkle to match my Club Dates. I'm stripping it mainly to make sure I'm not gluing the wrap to an unstable surface (which was chipping badly already), and to try as much as possible to avoid increasing the diameter of the drum and creating problems with heads fitting.

Scott

My experience was a little easier (not as many coats to remove). I had to do the work indoors in the winter also, and it worked out well. Cleans up nice a safe too!

Yeah, it's so hideous now that there's a part of me that wants to just put the hardware back on it and play it as is, just to make a statement!

I Dare Ya!!!

The "homemade" bowling ball wrap look. Ha ha ha!

[checker758]

Finally finished this rehab project, so I thought I'd post a photo of the results. I've actually had everything I needed for a while, and just needed to reassemble it, but this had fallen to the back burner so I just got around to putting it back together today.

It's not perfect, and it's not 100% "original", but it's good enough for me :)

Scott