1966 Rogers Buddy Rich Headliner kit, WMP!

[Tommyp]

After much thought... and it was difficult! ... I have decided to part with my 1966 Rogers Buddy Rich Headliner kit, in WMP and COMPLETE with ALL CORRECT hardware. This is a one of a kind kit as it features DUAL 14X14 floor toms. Very hard to find in this configuration... and pretty rare. The drums are ALL ORIGINAL, no funny business, no extra holes, etc. They LOOK and SOUND drop dead fabulous. Here are the sizes:

14X20
8X12
14X14
14X14
5X14 1964 chrome Powertone snare... or ... without the snare.

Hardware is complete as follows:
Swan Leg snare stand
Swivo HH stand w/clutch
TWO Swan leg cymbal stands
TWO "L" arms w/Knobby's
Swivo BD pedal/plate

Being 66's, ALL Knobby's are machined, not cast.

I have been gigging on this kit for the past two years. The sizes of the Headliner's are perfect for gigging and lugging around as they are a bit smaller than the Rogers BR Celebrities. The AMAZING this is... they sound HUGE! Perfect for a Jazz Trio all the way up to a Big Band, and everything in-between. Hey... they're Rogers!

Asking $6000.00... $5500.00 without the Powertone... and that INCLUDES foam lined H&B cases for the drums.

Tommyp

[Tommyp]

Shameless BUMP!

[wayne]

Beautiful kit for sure,BUT,imo,its quite overpriced.I,ve seen outfits similar to that for around 3-3500.Am i wrong,or just way out of touch??

[Tommyp]

Hi Wayne...

I'm just going to be blunt here... FIND ME ANOTHER ORIGINAL 1966 Rogers "Buddy Rich Headliner" in WMP,... ( no yellowing by the way ) ... with ALL the correct and complete hardware, not to mention the very RARE and highly sought after DUAL 14X14 floor toms, in the condition of this kit. A SINGLE Rogers WMP 14X14 floor tom will bring almost a grand on it's own! Find me another one, I'd love to see it, especially a kit that was born all together and original, not assembled out of a few different kits.

You certainly can't go down to your local Guitar Center and buy one of these,... and out of sheer curiosity: WHERE are the "similar" kits for the price point you mention? Supply a link and then we can compare the two kits and discuss them.

I'm sure you're a nice guy Wayne, and I mean no disrespect, but you are both wrong AND out of touch!

Tommyp

[wayne]

Listen,i,ve seen thousands of kits during my 40 yrs as a pro drummer,and there is always a kit that comes along that is "special".Yours is likely one of them,at least it looks good in print,BUT THIS DISCUSSION COMES UP OFTEN,regarding value.What can 5 or 6 grand buy today?.I,d say any kit you want.You might agree with me there.Then take in market conditions.IMO,this is a buyers market not a sellers.I also believe that a lot of the frenzy buying took place a few years ago re;vintage drums.Remember how much wood dynas sold for?...not anymore....example;I just bought a new Tama Omni tune 5 pc bubinga kit for under 3500 Canadian.Tama originally hinted the kit might sell for 5500.Things changed.Im not going to provoke you because i love Rogers drums more than anyone,and i think your kit could be worth the money,time will tell.You,re right about one thing...I am a nice guy,and i wish you luckYes Sir

[Tommyp]

Hey Wayne...

There's certainly no need for us to engage in a Peeing Contest over this... BUT!,

I am a working professional drummer, full time, 38 years now. I'm also a huge Rogers collector/enthusiest. Have you scanned this site and looked at my personal collection? Which includes TWO Rogers BR kits in WMP, a 1966, and a 1965 Celebrity, not to mention the two wood Rogers Dynasonics, and a host of others. Everything in WMP by the way. My point being, I know vintage drums, and especially Rogers. I also know all about the "market", be it a buyers or sellers market. One thing I have seen is that the market is cyclical... constanly goes around driven by many factors. Yes, agreed, wood Rogers Dynasonics aren't bringing $4000.00 anymore, ( which I personally thought was insane! ) but they are still holding at $2000.00 on the low side, and as much as $3500.00 on the high side for the RIGHT BUYER. And that's the key to any vintage item be it a car, drum, guitar, etc. You have to find YOUR buyer.

For the record, I gig on these all the time, and have still kept them near mint, and make no mistake Wayne, there are as nice in real life as they are in print.

Your Tama kit sounds beautiful Wayne... but did you happen to see a 1966 Rogers Buddy Rich Headliner in WMP while you were there? This Rogers kit is a rare find Wayne. Like I said, go find me another one in this year, model, configuration, condition, and color.

This kit is being offered for sale, but not fire saled. IF... and that's the key word, IF, the proper buyer comes along that has been looking/wanting a Rogers kit of this quality/originality/configuration, they will sell. IF that doesn't happen... guess what Wayne? I keep 'em! It's that simple.

Rogers... it's ALL I gig on! Got Rogers!? Thanks for your comments!

Tommyp

[wayne]

I wish i could afford your kit,because i,d buy it if i could.Check out www.songbirdmusic.com Drums obviously.It may not be an identical kit,but for about 1700 Canadian,its not bad!....Oh yeah,that just the asking price so i would think you can knock off a good chunk still,for the right buyer.

[wayne]

I realize that my passion for a good debate turned this issue upside down,It was [is] an add to sell something and i,ve re-directed the attention.Im very sorry for having done this by turning it into a political issue.Perhaps my admiration for Rogers drums,i dont know,but i agree they are still among the finest made to this day,and i wish you well.The "right" buyer as you pointed out will be getting a true historical classic,worth every penny!.Again my apologies

[Tommyp]

Hey Wayne...

A couple things of interest here... and a couple comments too!

First: The link you supplied showing the Rogers WMP kit needs a tad of commentary. This kit is a FULLERTON era manufactured kit, not even close to the Covington, Ohio produced EARLIER Rogers kits. ( like my '66 BR Headliner kit ) This is borne out by different shell interiors, lighter/cheaper CAST lugs/hardware, and the real kicker: They're NOT 1966 produced drums. The COB Dynasonic serial, #24186, indicates late 1969, early 1970 for year of manufacture. If they are Fullerton's, they have to be at least 1970. For the record, the drums in the link you supplied look VERY NICE!, but they're not 66's, and they're not the Buddy Rich Headliner model with DUAL 14X14 floor toms. They are also missing the cymbal stands. Thus, they aren't worth anywhere near as much to a collector/buyer.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with your passion for a good debate! I like them myself! The fact that you are a Rogers enthusiest shines through and is to be commended! The small rub of your intial commentary was the fact that I didn't think you were really aware of how rare and hard to find my kit is... not to mention the drop dead beautiful condition. The sound of these drums is a given! So,

No offense was taken Wayne, and the only reason I engaged in the debate was to try and show you WHAT these drums truly are, and how hard it would be to find another kit like this, complete, and in this condition, which justifies the price. And for the record, there's always a little room for haggling on an opening offer!

No apology needed Wayne! We are all friends here! Was nice chatting with you about these, and I know they would be in good hands if YOU bought them!

Tommyp

[backbeatmusic]

WOW WOW WOW That's a gorgeous kit!!! I've never seen one in that condition!! Very nice!! Why on earth would you sell that????? Geez ....... I'd be like >>> CryBaby

[Bebop]

beautiful kit. i would never sell it but thats just me. cheers mate.

[Tommyp]

Hey backbeatmusic!

THANKS for the nice words on my Rogers BR Headliners... they truly ARE as nice as they look! Anyway, to answer your question:

I am a HUGE BR fan, and just as big a Rogers fan, thus I currently own TWO Rogers Buddy Rich kits, both complete including hardware, and of course both in WMP. I also own a 1948 WFL Buddy Rich Classic kit also in WMP, and again, just as nice as both the Rogers kits... plus ... I also own a Slingerland Buddy Rich kit, complete and also in, what else, WMP. Whew! I won't even go into my collection of Buddy Rich snare drums covering just about every company he ever endorsed, and ALL of them in WMP. So the whole point of mentioning all this is:

I just felt it was time to "thin the herd" a tad, if you will. Ultimately, I would like to sell two kits. I've already sold four snare drums, all of them just beautiful.

Because my collection is a tad deep, and I can only gig on one kit at a time, I just felt I would test the waters, sort of. I put the price I did on these as they are that nice, and near impossible to find in this year/model/originality/wrap/completeness/condition. So there you have it!

Thanks for stopping by, and for the nice comments. Take care!

Tommyp

[Tommyp]

Hey Bebop!

Please see the previous post. My reply to backbeatmusic should explain it. THANK YOU for the nice words, and for stopping by!

Tommyp

[Bebop]

as i take it you dont like buddy rich right? :p

[Tommyp]

Me? LIKE Buddy Rich??? NAH!!!!!!!!!!! ALL those kits and snare drums are just a coincidence! HA!

I won't begin to mention all the media I've collected over the years having to do with BR. You know, I discovered Buddy in 1967... I was but 12 years old then. It has never stopped. My wife and kids say I "might" have some issues...! Saw him 5 times between 1971 and 1978... met him once! ( great story! ) :-)

Tommyp

[wayne]

TommyP.....Then i will assume you have a Fibes chrome snare drum because BR thought they were fantastic snare drums.If im not mistaken didn,t he also use Premier in the early daysCool Dude

[Webmaster]

For a more accurate pricture of some of the TommyP snare drum collection

Click Here (http://vintagesnaredrums.com/other_stuff/tommy_p/tommy_index.html)

I used his Fibes SFT, which he shipped to me as a favor, for the Puresound
Wire project. It is one sweet drum

For that matter if any forum member would like a feature let me know.

David

Webmaster

[backbeatmusic]

You're quite welcome Tommyp!!! Being a Buddy Rich fan, could you please tell me how in the world did they get him to flip upside down while doing a drum solo with no cage???? I'm at a loss trying to figure it out. I saw the solo in question at drummersworld.com and it just mystifies me how it was accomplished way back when!! Sure Tommy Lee did it IN A CAGE ALL STRAPPED IN !!! It's killing me!! Please enlighten me on this as I'm about to suffer severe dain bramage from slamming my head against the wall! :confused:

[Bebop]

haha. if you dont mind, howabout you tell the story of when you met buddy?

[Tommyp]

Wayne!

YES! I have a near mint as you could probably find 1973 Fibes SFT 690 COF snare drum... ( rectangular badge, NOT square ) ... THE Buddy Rich model if you will, although it was never called that of course. Well, at LEAST by Don Osborne who owned Slingerland at the time as BR was endorsing Slingerland then. This drum can be seen by clicking the link David supplied.

Backbeatmusic!

I do in fact have a brief interview where BR talked about that "stunt"... playing while upside down! It had NEVER been done before at the time. Let me see if I can dig it out. I do remember this though: He WAS strapped in to his throne, but it was nowhere NEAR as complicated as Tommy Lee's set-up. I do remember Buddy stating that it was the HARDEST he ever had to try and play, meaning fighting gravity, not volume. The amazing thing is, it looks like he's playing completely effortlessly, doesn't it? The guy was "One of a kind!!

Bebop!

I do have my "How I met Buddy" story available, but I think it would take up too much space to write here. If you would like to read it, please get in touch with me at my MAIN email address, which is available on this site, and I will forward the story to you. I think you will get a kick out of it!

Tommyp

[sabshga]

Why would anyone want two 14" floor toms? Is that to hold a drink and a towel? A newspaper maybe?

[Tommyp]

sabshga!

When I read your post/query, I said hmmm.... is he asking a rhetorical question here, or does he truly not have a clue as to why anyone would want/play two 14X14 floor toms. So, I'll just answer as if your question was truly posed for "wanting to know".

Dual floor toms, be they 16's, or 14's in this case, are a Buddy Rich trademark. Buddy always used two floors, as did a host of other pro's back in the day. It was considered the "perfect" set up: one up, two down if you will. Earlier in his career Buddy actually PLAYED the 2nd floor tom, and quite a bit at that. As time went on, he did relegate the 2nd floor tom to holding his towel, and barely, if ever, played it. But as you know, there have been MANY players to use two floor toms, or even three as Dennis Chambers does or the late Tony Williams did... and a lot of times one of the drums sizes are doubled, be they 14's, or the most common, 16's. So,

On this particular 1966 Rogers kit, it IS a Buddy Rich model, the "BR Headliner" in this case, so this kit was outfitted with TWO 14X14 floor toms, whereas Buddy's bigger Rogers kit was the "BR Celebrity" kit, and that kit had TWO 16X16 floor toms.

Regarding playability/sound: It is relatively simple sabshga, they are tuned differently, or as Buddy would have said, tensioned. Very easy to do of course, and the back 14X14 has a much lower, punchier sound to it, which gives the drummer a choice of three tom sounds. When I gig with the two 14's... ( and that doesn't happen every gig! ) ... I truly enjoy having the extra "voice" if you will. I am tempted to put a towel on it at times though!

Lastly, 14X14 vintage floor toms are generally considered... RARE! ... thus, this kit having two, makes it a bit more valuable, as well as being the exact BR set-up, only in smaller, easier moved, more "gig friendly" sizes. And hey, they're Rogers!

Tommyp

[sabshga]

I was being glib. I used to use a 14 and 16 but I felt the 16x16 was too big. Too much air to move IMHO. I like to have my drum sizes 2" apart so that the voice differences are more pronounced, hence my joking at 2 14s. I now use 8, 10, 12 racks and a 14 x 14. The 8 and 10 being non vintage and the 8 being optional in the set up. I also sometimes put a 13 to the left of my hi hat which really opens up the playing field for me as I am a righty and usually play cross handed on the high hat.

Bottom line... nice set. Thanks for the info. Both times I saw Buddy perform, he used the back floor tom as a drink and towel holder.

Call me
Gary
Dix Hills, NY

[Fatboy46]

WOW!.. Tommy, that is all the RIGHT STUFF in one package... right vintage, right sizes,, right hardware. It doesnt get much beeter than that.. maybe if Buddy Hisself actually played on it.. you could get 2x that.. What you have is a reasonable price price for a great kit.

[Tommyp]

Fatboy46!

THANK YOU for the very nice words regarding my '66 Rogers "BR Headliner" kit... I appreciate that YOU appreciate a nice kit!

I'm not being overly aggressive in attempting to sell these, as I really do love these drums... thus, I only have them listed/shown here. I'm not really interested in eBaying them... at least at this juncture. What has been neat is this:

A lot of guys have gotten to view a pretty rare Rogers BR model kit, in just amazing condition across the board, which is why I felt that the VSD Forum was THE place to show these. Thanks again! Hey!... Got Rogers?! :-)

Tommyp